feed/weight gain question
Last Post 20 Feb 2007 12:54 PM by gouldcs. 20 Replies.
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975856User is Offline
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12 Feb 2007 05:57 PM
    I'm still trying to get my horse to gain some weight.
    I finally am ready to try dry shredded beet pulp. How much should I give him to start? He's c. 1000 lbs.

    Do you see a problem with what he's eating?

    -TDI pelleted grain 12%
    -BOSS and Alfalfa pellets
    -Hard keeper (which doesn't seem to make a difference)
    -CocoSoya oil (maybe I should bag this and use canola oil)
    -Plenty of hay

    I wish I could just find one thing (like grain) and he would be fine with that...

    Would flax seed help?

    I don't want to hurt his system by giving him so many different things. Is there a combination of things that would work better???

    Thank you so much for your input.
    SunsetHaltersUser is Offline
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    12 Feb 2007 06:26 PM
    How are his teeth looking? Does he have any? Laugh He could possibly be anemic. You can either have your vet do some blood work, or start him off on Red Cell and see if you notice any changes.

    My sister's old Anglo Arab is here now. He has very little teeth Wink So he gets Purina senior, alfalfa pellets, ground flax seed, arthritis supplements, red cell, and daily dewormer- whew! All mixed up with hot water- made plenty sloppy Wink

    TJ has been putting on quite a bit of weight. I know the redcell has helped alot, as TJ's anemic. Before it didn't matter what he was fed, he just wouldn't gain. Now I can see a hint of ribs, but I sure can't count them! He still has a ways to go. He's always been a hard keeper, but now that he doesn't have much in the way of teeth, it makes it even harder Wink
    975856User is Offline
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    12 Feb 2007 08:52 PM
    What exactly is "red cell"? I've not heard of it.
    My horse's teeth are good. He had them floated a year ago and he is only 6. What would anemia have to do with lack of weight gain? (absorbtion issues?)

    What if I used a senior feed as a supplement, as an extra feeding? Would that screw anything up if he was getting a different feed for his morning and evening feedings?
    967342User is Offline
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    12 Feb 2007 08:56 PM
    Red Cell is a blood builder.....

    Being that your horse is healthy and there are no underlying issues I wanted to recommend a product I use. I too have a problem keeping weight on one of my horses (coming 4 year old). I use Adeptus Gleam and Gain. I feed 2-3 scoops daily for additional calories and it DOES NOT make my horse hot in any way. It has Omega 3's and flax in it. It's a really good coat conditioner as well. As far as supplements go he gets 1lbs of Purina senior AM AND PM. Platinum Performance and MSM. Try it, it's not pricey and I love the results!
    967342User is Offline
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    12 Feb 2007 09:00 PM
    By the way Red Cell is not a weight gain supplement. It increases the number of red blood cells in the blood which carry more oxygen to the muscles. I use this on my older show horse daily in the Spring, Summer and Fall when I train him everyday. It DOES give him lots of energy but we burn it all with our sessions.
    kara83809User is Offline
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    12 Feb 2007 09:26 PM
    I like beet pulp; I feed it to my 20 year old mare. It keeps her at a decent weight, even though she has teeth issues. I sometimes soak it (especially when it's cold and a warm meal is a treat) but usually feed it dry - she loves it either way. I give her about two coffee cans, twice a day. Also, when I have a supplement or wormer or medicine to give her, I can mix it in with the wet beet pulp and she eats every bit of it. I sometimes (depending on my $$ situation) mix it with senior feed, especially in the winter.
    jobinaUser is Offline
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    12 Feb 2007 10:19 PM
    My old (32yr) mare was very difficult to keep weight on. Her teeth were good so I changed my feeding program. I switched feed to rolled oats..that's it. I don't know an exact weight for how much, I have a scoop that I use and I've figured out how many scoops I need for each horse. I add Hoffman's Horse Mineral on top at each feeding and for some extra umph the old girl gets a scoop of Patriot Surmount, a 12% protein pellet, made by Masterfeeds. And of course they get lots of good hay and water, and lots of pasture in the summer
    SunsetHaltersUser is Offline
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    12 Feb 2007 11:01 PM
    Quote:


    By the way Red Cell is not a weight gain supplement.




    You're right, but in TJ's case, our vet suggested it, as anemic horses can have a very hard time putting weight on, and keeping it on. That's why I asked the OP if her horse may be anemic Wink

    Now that TJ's on Red Cell, he's now a piece of cake to get weight on.
    967342User is Offline
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    13 Feb 2007 12:16 AM
    Quote:

    Quote:


    By the way Red Cell is not a weight gain supplement.




    You're right, but in TJ's case, our vet suggested it, as anemic horses can have a very hard time putting weight on, and keeping it on. That's why I asked the OP if her horse may be anemic Wink

    Now that TJ's on Red Cell, he's now a piece of cake to get weight on.




    No prob. i just wanted to make sure she knew not to use it JUST for that......
    Hopefully it's not anemia Smile
    975856User is Offline
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    13 Feb 2007 09:24 AM
    OK, so can I give him his regular TDI pelleted grain in the morning and evening, and then ADD purina senior, or the performance feed to it in the a.m. and p.m.? Is it OK to mix different feed brands/formulas?? That's what I'm not sure of. Can I continue to give him BOSS, Beet pulp, and oil too (with those 2 feeds)??? I'm just not certain if he would overdose on any nutrients that may be in each formula... Thanks you guys for your answers...you are very helpful!

    P.s. do you give your palomino anything special to give him his beautiful color?? Mine is darker in the spring..the sig picture, he's kind of bland. He looks better now. I need to get new pics up!
    967342User is Offline
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    13 Feb 2007 01:22 PM
    Personally I would take him off the TDI. I took my horse off grain and now and just giving him the senior. You CAN mix the two but I see you have other supplements too like BOSS, ETC. I would take one of those two out gradually and try just the senior AM and PM with plenty of hay. Are you giving alfalfa or grass? If it's just grass hay, is that why you feed alfalfa pellets? The oil is fine, you can even try corn oil if you're not seeing any results from the current product. As for beet pulp, I've never used it and haven't ever felt my horses needed it. Hope my suggestion helps Smile
    I don't believe in overoading a horses diet, I believe in having a nutritionally sound diet for each individual horse. It may take a couple times of some careful change to find what works best for you and your guy Wink
    PS. The gleam and gain REALLY makes them shine. It even brought out a few dapples I didn't know he had.In the pic below is after two months of gleam and gain and he was intensive training so he looked awesome in September.
    derby713User is Offline
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    13 Feb 2007 01:56 PM
    In my opinion you are feeding a great deal of feeds. I would change grains. If an older horse over 16yrs I would go to a Sr feed. I have great luck with Triple Crown SR and Blue Seal Vintage Sr. If your horse is younger then I love Triple crown complete. It has rice bran and beet pulp inside. Has put weight on a few of my horses.

    The oil, unless it is rice bran oil I never really see it work on putting on weight. I do like the BOSS and flax seed is always good. I always soak my beet pulp even if it is shredded. It expands and I don't mind them having the extra water.

    A really good feed is Omegatin. That has worked wonders on many of the hard keepers at my farm. I highly recomend it.

    What I have done with the hard keepers here is I feed either the sr or complete and add omegatin into their diets. (of course they all get a lot of hay) That works the best for me.

    Also, sometimes I find if I double dose the wormer they gain weight quickly. Two of the horse here I started with a low dose of wormer then a week/ week and a half I gave them a full dose. good luck with your horse. pm me if you would like anymore info. Smile
    AnonymousUser is Offline
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    15 Feb 2007 10:50 AM
    Horses are rarely iron deficient. Iron toxicity is nasty. I would never use red cell w/o a medical diagnosis.

    Where is your horse lacking weight? Ribs? Topline?

    Have you dewormed for tapeworms and/or encysted small strongyles?
    TulipUser is Offline
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    15 Feb 2007 11:08 AM
    Sorry I did not have time to read all the posts in this thread but just wanted to let you know what has worked for my thoroughbred. The grain I have him on is Triple Crown Complete (has rice bran and beet pulp right in it). I also give him Triple Crown conditioning chaff which is a high fat/fiber supplement. He is carrying great weight this winter and is happy and healthy - without the energy calories that he doesn't need. After watching him, there are now 4 other horses I know that have gone on this feed and are doing great. You can check out any of these products on the Triple Crown page at: http://www.triplecrownfeed.com
    I tried many different things before finding this combination and I know what you mean about wanting to keep it simple. Of course he also gets hay - which is provided by the barn I board at. Best of Luck!!
    975856User is Offline
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    15 Feb 2007 02:20 PM
    He's on a good worming schedule, but his ribs are beginning to show again. I think he's naturally slender/long quarter horse. I think his rear and topline could use some meat.. I don't want him heavy, just a little meatier in those areas.
    Equi SearchUser is Offline
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    16 Feb 2007 12:42 AM
    I second the Triple Crown suggestion - look them up and give them a call - they are pros and can recommend the best approach from their product line.
    AnonymousUser is Offline
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    16 Feb 2007 02:35 PM
    Before anything else I would deworm with panacur power-pak. Double dose of fenbendazole for 5 consecutive days. Check out this site www.power-dose.com
    CampCreekUser is Offline
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    19 Feb 2007 12:14 AM
    I agree strongly with Jen. Before you do anything else, worm him with something that will kill encysted strongyles and tapeworms. I can't stress this enough. Even though he's on a regular deworming schedule and even if fecal egg counts come back clean, he could have a high parasite load. I lost five horses once to a rare parasite, a type of small strongyle, that had encysted (buried up in the intestinal lining to "hibernate"). When they're encysted, they don't lay eggs so all fecals done can come back clean ~ absolutely zero. This was the case with my horses. One horse in particular died twelve hours after a sample was taken that tested clean. BTW, ALL strongyles can and do encyst ~ rare ones, common ones, small ones and large ones.

    So I strongly urge you to rule this out by getting him wormed with the fenbendazole multi-day regimen to ensure any and all encysted parasites are gone. It won't hurt him, but not doing it could hurt him. Then worm with something that kills tapeworms (or does the fenbendazole get the tapes too, Jen? I can't remember).

    If he doesn't start gaining after that, I'd have his teeth looked at again. Every year isn't that often ~ it's actually a good practice to get them done that often, atleast looked at to make sure they don't need it. Some horses even need it more often than that, even younger ones ~ it's not common in younger ones, but it's possible and does happen.

    And try to find a veterinarian who specializes in equine dentistry. Most vest don't spend much class time on dentistry, so while they know how to do a basic "float", they very well may not know how to fix severe hooks and other abnormalities.

    This is something else that one may think, "Well, his teeth are fine. If not, I'd know something." Not so. Earlier this year, I spent $1800 getting ten of my horses done by Dr. Clay Stubbs, an EXCELLENT veterinarian who specializes in horse dentistry (he even has multiple patents on dentistry tools he's designed himself) and it was worth every single penny! I was amazed at how some of my horses' teeth looked. I never would have had any idea. The ones who dropped their feed were obvious, but there were a couple who needed it worse than the feed-dropping ones despite them not dropping any feed or weight at all.

    Just the education I got from Dr. Stubbs was worth more than what I paid him. He let me look up inside my horses' mouths, pointed out things to me, told me how they happen, showed me what they do to the horse's cheeks and tongue and told me how the horse would show it with his actions. On one little gelding in particular (one of the ones whose teeth needed work badly but didn't drop his feed) he said, "This guy probably throws his head around a lot, even when you use a hackamore, and doesn't like going to the left." I'll be darned if he wasn't right!!! And all that stopped after he healed up from Dr. Stubbs' working on him.

    So, if the worming doesn't work, check his teeth. If it's not his teeth, then start looking at feed supplements (btw, I LOVE corn oil and SWEAR by it ~ wish I had my before and after pictures to show you). Doing these two things first could save you a lot of money since almost no amount of feed can put weight on a horse with a high worm load, and the amount and type of feed needed to put weight on a horse with crappy teeth will break the bank! LOL!

    Good luck! Grin And let us know how it turns out! Grin
    AminaeUser is Offline
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    20 Feb 2007 12:33 PM
    When I first got my horses they needed to gain some weight, so my vet told me to try feeding 1 lb of corn and 4 lb of oats a day, and they gained weight, over the winter. They dont get the corn and not as much oats anymore, because last time the vet came out he said they were looking good and i could cut back on how much they were getting.
    gouldcsUser is Offline
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    20 Feb 2007 12:54 PM
    i put weight on a 21 yr old arab who was a very hard keeper by feeding beet pulp 1 can, with 1 can senior pellets 6% fat, with 1/4 cup corn oil, and all the g/a hay he could eat.. now his "dad" says he's never seen him at such a good weight, i'm working on getting weight on my OTTB, he's on the same as the arab and he's putting on weight, i stall them both overnite with about 4 flakes of hay then they are outside and get 2 in the am and 1 at lunch time. i agree with everyone else watch to not double up on the minerals/additives. good luck,,,
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